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Note: The opinions expressed by the moderators and members of this discussion board do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Occupy Together or Occupy Wall St. In the spirit of free information, open discussion, and the freedom of expression, members are able to speak about issues relating and directly pertaining to the Occupy movement. You will be banned for hate speech or intentional misinformation and please refrain from any violent rhetoric; this is a peaceful movement. Thank you.
Idea: No tenting through the winter months
  • sarahblythepondsarahblythepond October 2011 +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )
    All respect to those who are currently camping out in the occupied public spaces. I am grateful.

    Last night I was pondering the Winter Planning discussions here. Originally, I agreed with the proposed idea of sponsoring a camper. But then I thought about how staying in a tent in an urban environment is really nothing like actual (wilderness) camping in winter conditions. Winter camping involves proper gear, camp fire, and shelter by using the landscape. Huddling in an urban square in inadequate tents seems like a recipe for illness and weakened occupiers. Since we are all about co-creating new systems and paradigms, I invite us all to re-think the concept of actual physical occupation of the public spaces i.e. tenting in harsh winter months.

    So.

    I would like to float this idea and see where it goes: In order that none of our people will be exposed to illness by tenting in winter weather, no tenting in the Northern Occupations will take place in Northern cities through the winter months. Instead, and by intention, resources and energy will be put toward such things as planning for the spring, occupying inside spaces, tenting in the Southern cities, occupying mental space/culture-jamming, outdoor art installations, outdoor events, other actions, etc.

    I know that revolution is not supposed to be *comfortable* and that some may label such a decision as *weak*, but why not frame it as keeping our people strong and healthy enough to stand and occupy another day.

    Thoughts?

    Agrees: Durandus

  • johniewaddelljohniewaddell October 2011 +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )
    I respect where you are coming from but, you have to understand that for many of us this movement is life and death. Not all of us want to spend the rest of our lives working 80 hour weeks for a wage that is half the living standard. I would rather die for positive change in the cold than sitting by a fire considering what could have been. Will the numbers dwindle? Yes, but we will never let up until the battle is won.

    Space heaters, solar panels and portable wind turbines.....no installation = no molestation by the white shirts

    Agrees: gavemehope

  • jaded002 October 2011 +1 -1
    There are portable heaters if fires are not allowed. I think a great idea would be for people to use body heat as it is actually the most effective method to maintain heat. Also to keep illness down is to make sure people use sanitizers, but still they need to make sure to wash hands. Use public restrooms to cleanse hands. To also stay healthy maybe regular morning exercising. Showing a united front. That means jumping jacks various methods of meditation to keep them mentally strong and banding closely together at night. I think this will help pass the winter what do you think? :)
  • altruismisdead October 2011 +1 -1
    The protesters need to show resilience. How about an address where supporters can donate winter clothes, blankets, and heaters
  • Yael October 2011 +1 -1
    ...and quality outdoors gear! Education could become a critical component, just teaching people ways to hold in their body heat--layering, keeping wet cotton off their bodies, etc. Insulation from the ground is also massively important. Cardboard works, and foam works even better.
  • MaggieP October 2011 +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )
    Sarah, I also have 'winter conditions' for Occupiers on my mind - a lot.

    I farmed in northern Canada, where, for over a decade, I lived in a poorly heated frame cabin with no plumbing. I 'know' winter. It's long, it's grueling, and it's dangerous. I was outdoors for 2-4 hrs daily in the farming situation, and even bundled very well - there were situations where I'd remove mittens to be able to use fingers. Daily in winter my hands especially would eventually get so cold, I'd feel it was time to get back indoors "now". But usually I had only "another 10-15 min" to get the full range of tasks done, so would stay out. At least I had a roof, and walls, and heat, even if it was not fully cozy!

    To 'stay exposed to cold a little bit longer' is a common occasional practice, for everyone who lives in cold winter conditions, but as daily practice it's not wise.

    Occupy people have demonstrated problem solving beautifully, so I've not wanted to 'barge in' when I also know that if/when it's intolerable they'll sort it out. But I also suspect many have no idea just how grueling - and or potentially dangerous - it can be. I'd love to spare them some of the distress that could develop!

    One of my thoughts is that the key issue is to occupy the space. So maybe they can spell one another off re overnight stays, and can have one or more housing locations (similar to hostels?) where they can house media center, library, kitchen, teaching, and other activity spaces. Perhaps when weather permits, much of the camp activity can still happen at the occupy site, but for 'permanent' set-up, I'd sure like to see indoor spaces found for winter.

    IF part of the movement is also to stage marches, the participants will be in far better shape if most of them have not been solely preoccupied with raw survival. So I envision the full camp activity continuing throughout the winter, but with sleeping (at least) reduced to a rotating group.

    I'm also thinking of spring and summer 2012. I don't want winter to knock the steam out of the movement so thoroughly that it has to revive itself come spring. I think in terms of how to keep the movement quite active through winter - with spring/summer revealing no loss of spunk - but 'roaring back to camp life' once weather is more comfortable.

    ... my thoughts! (I'm some geographical distance from any Occupy activity, and am not in a good situation to offer 'on site' support.)

    Agrees: sarahblythepond

  • Old_Hippie_Tips October 2011 +1 -1
    MaggieP"s concerns are very valid. I posted Preparing for WINTER as an Ant and not a Grasshopper!!
    to help. Unfortunately, I don't think our writings are getting out to the average occupier. Their Livestream if focused on the chat. It contains very little content.
  • gavemehope October 2011 +1 -1 (+2 / -0 )
    I believe sticking it out would be a extraordinary show of strength, but I also think that the strength does not simply vanish if there happens to be a hard winter. We should always have options, and we could look at this, if it is the case this is impossible due to mother nature camping was not a reasonable option. Marches still are, many other ways to still participate. It could also be a time for strategy, and planning for every thing from organization, to marketing making sure it stays planted in the minds of the most spaces it can. To look at is an opportunity to make next year all that much better and get an early start. The people this most matters to are not going away. That is my impression of it anyway.
  • BrightestEyeBrightestEye October 2011 +1 -1
    I live in California, and our winter is very mild (rain) is as bad as it gets and I am worried for my New England and North Eastern (and wherever else it may snow) and Canadian Occupy Families all over the world. Tenting in the snow is very dangerous and but shows strength. Winter is approaching quick and the radio stations are betting that the movement will die out for good over the winter. We need an agenda , that shows our support over these cold months. Some of us will stick it through and camp, and others will show support in which ever way they can.
  • MundusVultDecipiMundusVultDecipi October 2011 +1 -1 (+3 / -0 )
    All forms of communications have condescendingly reported on this movement the whole time. They can speculate all they want but actions speak louder than words. Let em spit hate, only feeds my fire. A diversity of tactics are happening right now. Some brave souls will camp through winter, many won't. The one thing I know is this movement will really hit its prime next spring/summer.
  • BrightestEyeBrightestEye October 2011 +1 -1
    Spring and Summer is our prime. I agree.
  • MaggieP November 2011 +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )
    I think that warmer climate potential to remain in outdoor camps going through winter is one way the movement will stay inspired by visual representation - California, Florida, etc., will be invaluable!

    To the extent more northerly camps need to modify public presence - volunteer overnighters, rallies and marches can achieve that aim. I do hope camp centers such as media, libraries, kitchens, and general sleeping quarters, can be housed indoors - this will keep these impressive community centers intact and ready to move outdoors again once weather permits. Mundus says: "A diversity of tactics are happening right now" ... I don't doubt it - from time to time I can only wonder in amazement that humanity seems finally determined to find it's center!

    Agrees: sarahblythepond

  • MaggieP November 2011 +1 -1
    In case it's helpful - Just had a flash memory - back in the 'external modem' days - of the several times I 'fried' a modem by leaving it in my car at sub-freezing temps for just long enough that frost crystals formed, taking it indoors, not waiting long enough for the frost to melt and evaporate. Zap! Another modem gone. I don't know how present day electronics respond in cold temps. As I've said - I'm confident Occupy activists will quickly sort out such problems - but electronics seem to operate better at 'room temp' if possible.
  • DurandusDurandus November 2011 +1 -1
    Well, I've brought this up before...but I can accommodate 50 Occupiers at my Private Property, likely jobs, enough work n store of Pantry, hot water, wind/rain protection, propane heat, sleeping hovels...but, these would have to apply to the BeingQuestOccupy encampment in Dassel, MN and have proper ID. So, instead of waiting for a reply I sent upon the Wall on this proposition before, I here thus reiterate.