Does this school walkout include elementary schools? If so, why are punishing little children? Aren't we all for education? All local paper everywhere are bemoaning the fact that kids don't learn to read, write or arithmetic.

I think this would be viewed as counter productive. However, the suggestion is good for discussion. Please do not loose focus on education. I think the message from a school walk out would not have its intended affect.

@Marrand, It includes Highschools and perhaps Middle Schools. I have also heard that some college students may be interested in organising walkouts as well.

@Beachcruiser, It is only a one day walkout followed by protests and in the one area where there concrete details (my native Ithaca, NY) I've scheduled it so that students will only miss 1-1.5 hours of a Friday. Thus any counter-productivity that would result from such an action would be minimal and it will do a lot to show that even the "typically apathetic" high schoolers care about this issue.

I firmly disagree with this walk out. College students are one thing and I am all for that type of activism. But children receive a really crappy education in this country to begin with, I hate to steal a moment from that activity. Not to mention it is illegal for children to do this and can have real ramifications to which the children are not given rights to combat. If they are of voting age (18) then I can see this, otherwise it is an exercise in futility and can only earn bad publicity.

While I do realise it may be illegal. Is that not civil disobedience. Should those younger than 18 be prevented from making a stand via this format. I'd also like to point out that while you are right that education is poor and time should be devoted, the lesson to take a stand when you feel the time is right and to actively use your rights (THEY DO EXTEND TO ALL CITIZENS, try to prove otherwise) is more important than anything that one could teach in a classroom (which, lets be honest, they'll just forget anyways).

I will also disagree that it will earn bad publicity. That is if the walkout actually becomes something close to a nationwide thing.

I will concede to your ideology simply because I will admit relative neutrality in this situation. I walked out on an unjust grading policy enacted by my high school once and it did indeed have an effect. I would simply urge caution then and remember if you are still on school grounds, you aren't technically breaking the exact law sooooo....perhaps a wee bit of people crouched with a sign by the flagpole would be in order? Keep it peaceful, keep it safe, and know that we stand beside you forever :)
99%

Of course. Thanks for the support brother!

We seem to have accepted the existence of a permanent underclass of tens of millions who cannot cope and must be carried by society -- fed, clothed, housed, tutored, medicated at taxpayer’s expense their entire lives. We have a dependent nation the size of Spain in our independent America. We have a new division in our country, those who pay a double or triple fare, and those who ride forever free.

The majority of this country's wealthy did not inherit their fortunes. Rather, they created their own wealth and success, primarily through creating new businesses or products. Unlike most nations, ours is truly the land of equal opportunity, a place where rags-to-riches stories are common. The millionaire who started 1-800-GOT-JUNK was a high school drop-out with $1,000 to his name. He began his business by hauling away junk for a fee. He offered a service that people were willing to pay for. There are millions of people who have started with nothing and became successful. With drive and determination, anything is possible.

Yet, instead of taking advantage of the vast opportunities in this country, the bottom feeders choose to spend their energy complaining and whining about ways to leach more blood from society. I do hope that the Occupy protesters, as they are communicating and gathering in groups, are coming up with innovative ways to create more jobs, lower government spending, and reduce the dependency of the underclass. The entitlement era must end and personal accountability must reign.

I look forward with anticipation to hearing about the many great ideas for new businesses, new jobs, new products, new services, new inventions spawned by the Occupy think-tank. Hopefully the protesters (folks clearly with a lot of time on their hands) will leave the nation with much more than the stench of trash and urine in our public spaces.

OccupyYourMind: you make good points. Too many too lazy to take care of themselves, and forever dependent on those who are working, sweating, saving, investing. But you presented only part of the story.

You talk about those carried by society. But how many of those are in that position by choice? I propose that most were forced into it, mainly by improper education since childhood. The kids just weren't taught the needed skills to thrive on their own when they grow up. Why? Because their lowly status serves the needs of others who are lording over them, i. e. the entire education establishment, be it state or federal level. And that establishment is part of the "haves", not the poor "have nots". So, consider how this came about not only lament how it is. For factual backup, just read any local paper, where they endlessly complain about the sad state of education.

Then look at the upper crust, those who worked hard and made it and some who are rich. How did they got rich? Oh many honestly to be sure. But enough of them succombed to the capitalist greed, and in their positions in the huge Wall Stree Banks cheated the middle class out of their savings (ponzi schemes, derivates, hedge funds) or homes (faulty mortgages).

Those hurt and deceived are many. Those of the OccupyWallStreet movement see this and say: no no, we can't go on like this, we cannot go on screwing so many people year in, year out. We must do something about it. On that they are right and righteous.

What won't be right and righteous is if devious political forces will infiltrate and try to take over this movement to further their own agenda. Now, that would be a travesty, and I hope these good people, many smart and astute people, will have the sense and determination to resist it.

Education is one of the major keys to success (not crushing debt). Here in NYC, since that evil ol' queen Mike Bloomberg was able to spend over one hundred million dollars of his own money to illegally change the law and buy himself a third term, let us now call upon him to spend less than half of that to re-hire the 642 teachers aides he recently laid off ... or resign. RESIGN! Of course, he'll do neither, but at least now the entire world will be made aware.

Zwyer 10/16/11

As a new immigrant I walked out of my high school in support of a teacher's strike back in late 70's. That was the beginning of my political education. Something that none of my academic "education" (including my political science class) could provide. Formal education is nothing but indoctrination of our minds for the benefit of the profit system. Otherwise, how would most even accept having masters all their lives. That is sick - literally. How long do you want to be treated at best like children? Let's get real folks. Enough of this respect for authority. I do not mean to be reckless. But we are talking about our future and the future of the younger generation.

Please try to snap out of it. There is much at stake. This is not a temporary financial crisis. Capitalism is dying and taking us down with it. Our consciousness is behind the severity of reality. Necessity (survival) is forcing and will force our minds and hands. Otherwise, welcome to the underclass! - your future!

@slave I have to agree. Deep down that's pretty much what I believe and if this movement is the wave that puts the final blow in capitalism, then I can't wait to see what lie ahead!

Also, don't forget to spread the word about the walkout and organise!

slave: I have to disagree. Formal education, reading, writing, math are necessities of life and not indoctrination. We all need all of them, to live and to get a job.

First of all I never said quit school. It is for a day for heaven's sake. I do hope that it happens more often though around different issues to give kids more connection about the real world rather than keeping them in a barbie doll house. They will be better prepared for the real world and won't have as many bubbles burst like most of us. I am also for a move away from formal education as it is not just about reading, writing, math, etc. rather the content and application of those knowledge areas and skills that in effect shape and conquer children's brains indoctrinating them into submission and dependency suppressing their skepticism and curiosity. They steal the 2 year old (the always curious and questioning honest i.e., non-tainted child) out of them as they did yours.

Sorry slave. I went to school to learn reading, writing, math mainly, and I hope they never short change those. There is more to education, of course, but in our local papers I keep reading how the educational system fails to teach the little kids even these simple skills. And that handicaps them when they grow up. You can add and expand all you like, and encourage little kids' curiosity, but you cannot compromise on these basics.

As I see it, teaching these basics skills is not indoctrinating the kids into submission and dependency. Rather, those who learn them best turn out most independent.

marrand. Here is a video presenting better context and additional evidence. Hope you reconsider your position (also feel free to present evidence to the contrary):

@marrand As slave said, it's only for one day/ one part of a day, so in the grand scheme of things what people miss will be not that important. Also, I feel like what one will learn by walking out and protesting will be a valuable life lesson.

@slave: the video clip is superb; I agree with all. The short paragraphs we post here are totally inadequate to convey ideas to each other. We try, but often we miss. Just a few points, since a full discourse is near impossible.
1. Yes, school suppresses creativity; not completely kills it.
2. To realize your potential you must learn to read, write and math - the basics, and these are not indoctrination. No compromise, no sacrifice on this part.
3. Of course the kids MUST be taught science, history, and especially the arts. And of course there are necessary activities outside school; but they don't have to be protesting and demonstrations. Camping and living off mother nature would tickle the creativity just as well. Trips to foreign lands. Many things, yet not all can fit into one kid's lifetime.
4. The current public school system marvelously fails to perform any of these tasks; only a few kids can break through the suffocating barriers and lack of proper instruction. That's my beef. And I see no reason to hire more teachers, just to take up space and screw the little kids' minds even further.

@urlordandsaviour: we agree not to indoctrinate, but don't walking out, marches, and protests subject kids to indoctrination too? Showing them the process is great; telling this is right or this is wrong is indoctrination. You say it's only for a day; but who will guide them when they are on the street? Current teachers? No way!!!

@marrand

First, I think one of the beauties of the movement is that people from all walks of life are present at the protests. It's not just Eco-Socialists like me but there are Social Democrats, Libertarians, Communists, Centrists etc. And if there is a good showing from both schools and the community (who are invited to participate with us), those viewpoints will be expressed. So, yes I guess there will be some form of indoctrination but hopefully only in the direction of making people who may not have cared, care and realise that everyone is welcome in the movement.

Second, once students leave, It will be the students who organised the walkout in their school and others will take up the reigns and not necessarily lead but, guide and facilitate the protests that take place afterwards.

@slave Great video!

@urlordandsaviour: since the demonstrations are mainly in big cities, I was thinking of the poor little inner city kids, like 10 years old. They are already are being deprived of the basics, and now even more? I wasn't thinking these young ones organizing anything; rather, being organized by current educational system.

You talk about people from all walks of life, and listed some. But I don't see Republicans, conservatives, Tea Party people mentioned. Don't they belong? I never thought the OccupyWallStreet movement would consider excluding them. Didn't they also get screwed by capitalist bankers? And some even spoke up against them?

Yes, I see your point: some indoctrination will happen, and it would be ok with me if limited AND presented by both sides of political spectrum. OR, nonpolitical at all, though I imagine that's more difficult to do.

To repeat: the process of potesting and civil disobedience is a valuable lesson for young minds. But I am not sure if the 10 year olds can understand.

:) agreed . Need to welcome and educate the deceived and misrepresented of all sides . Whether they know it or not, we are in this fight together.

@gavemehope: one thing that scares me the most and which I will fight against: any authority who tells me how to think and what to do, all in the name of education. And in that sense, this movement "gave me hope".

@Marrand, This is primarily a High School and College walkout... Also, I see your point. I was simply listing people who I know are active in the Occupy Ithaca movement.

And, yes indoctrination is hard to avoid but since everyone is invited, and is invited to speak in a peoples mic forum, all views of those present will hopefully be heard.

Thanks people for continuing this very important discussion. It is more important than just the subject matter. The video discussion presents a deeper issue which is how we are integrated into the society. After all it is each and every one of us who grease the wheels and makes the system operate in its current dysfunctional state. By no means am I implying that we are the system (i.e., capitalism) rather that we buy into it and enable it for all its good and bad (now increasingly and catastrophically bad due to its evolutionary course). We buy into it not by our ''free will'' rather by default. Because the system is in charge and there is currently no alternative. This starts from our very early childhood through ''education'' not just by schools but by our parents and the rest of society who also have been ''educated''. But as the video demonstrated somewhat this is a process of teaching conformity and submission. Conformity to the rules of the capitalist society (i.e., rules that make profit i.e., theft of labor acceptable) and submission to its authority (reflected in all its institutions). These are continued later in our lives through various ''media'' and its related industrial complex (i.e., via other ''education'' or ''news'' and ''entertainment''). This is all done while pretending to be by ''choice'' and in the environment of ''democracy'' whereas all the various seemingly optional and elective ''choices'' are in reality controlled in content (just like the candidates in an election) and the real or broader ''choices'' which could threaten the status quo interests of capital (translated in oligarchs and plutocrats etc.) are carefully excluded (by lack of funding, or more active diffusive / delegitimizing / and even coercive measures).

I never suggested that indoctrination is the sole domain of the current masters. In fact it is part and parcel of every hierarchical group or organization with the negative connotation being attributed because conformity is reinforced consciously or subconsciously to provide for privileged power to those higher up in hierarchy. But the domination of the capitalist masters is so absolute (reflected in all its institutions including ''education'') that encouraging exposure to other ''non-conventional'' ideas especially those that are highly critical of the status quo is essential to allow people especially younger people in their formative years (i.e., from elementary school on) avoid forming deep-rooted assumptions about the nature of society which would be harder to break later on. Capitalist masters are well aware of this and that is why they spend large amounts concentrating most of their ''educational'' and ''media'' resources to capture the minds of the young generation - a great investment for the system's survival ensuring their massive theft and profit from the mostly clueless.

Indoctrination and conformity undermine creativity. Something that the global movement desperately needs in these challenging times. Indoctrination and conformity fundamentally serve private interests (i.e., for private power) are present in hierarchical organizations and have at their basis private ownership (without which no private power or interest could be claimed or maintained). As such establishing a cooperative economic system based on shared or communal ownership removes the private interests which leads to indoctrination, conformity, hierarchy, domination, and a myriad of conflicts thus allowing the more free expression of creativity without intimidation or worse enabling our species to better meet the tremendous challenges of our looming epic fight for survival on this planet.

@slave It is my sincere hope that if the Occupy movement works. That may soon no longer be the case.

@slave: I like your thinking. But there is one big problem: it is way ahead of its time. The globe, much less any given country, is ready for that kind of society, where creativity and "being the best you can be" is valued more than success and conformity. In the mean time we are stuck with our petty squabbles, and the nitty gritty of surviving.

@marrand I think people can be. Will it be easy or quick? No but, I think the time is near. The wall is beginning to fracture with small cracks.

Or perhaps I'm just optimistic.

@urlordandsaviour: in normal course of human events, the structures built by all societies exhibit some cracks; just normal wear and tear in old ideas before any new ones take hold.
So, I agree with you, there are cracks, but are they bigger and more significant than the normal tear and wear? Seems to me they are, but not yet big enough.
And yes, you and I are optimistic. But you more so than me. :)

Well, the way I see it is, if you can't tell if they are big enough. Pound anyway. You might be pleasant surprised.