You're right Dran. I think some people have entirely too narrow of parameters regarding what they feel needs to be done. Radical change is necessary. This country has had 234 years to build the better mousetrap. It isn't happening. We need to think outside the box as the saying goes, and explore other options beyond what we've been programmed to deem acceptable or possible.

Dran have you read "Beyond Civilization" by Daniel Quinn? It is based on the subject of transcending traditional solutions.

Yes! traditional solutions are in the same domain that created the problem, as Einstein would say. The new paradigm demands from us, the 99% sleeping beauties to wake up and "occupy" our responsibility as creators, not as protestors.

And I think that will happen no matter what. Soon will come certain events that are going to finally dissolve our belief in a Darwinian and senseless Creation, devoid of purpose and Infinite possibilities.
We can not go ahead any more if life's purpose is blind and mechanical replication of selfish genes.

I would love to disagree with you all. Unfortunately this was too well thought out and too well written.

We are also in our local occupation having the arguments between the sleep-walkers that are half awake and see the corruption but think it can be fixed from the inside and those who can see the potential future.

I am having conflicts within myself figuring out how to reconcile that without excluding them and without violating my anti-assertion principle and without negating or dissolving the movement.

Brutal_Truth knows well that I can take a a very logical (narrow implies lack of depth) take on some issues, and I have to own that. It may well be that my very thinking has been subverted by the ever-present illusions the system creates to perpetuate itself. I have to accept this as a possibility.
To combat this systemic bias, I ceaselessly question everything. With an open mind, I hold nothing as true which cannot support itself. This simple premise shields me from the illusory world of power and control.
But this shield has a side-effect: I will ceaselessly question the solutions proposed here with the same intensity and focus I used to assail the false logic of the system we seek to end.

You needn't worry about negating or dissolving the movement with caution, its the quick reactions that will get us into trouble. This is an occupation. We have time to figure things out. We all want this to happen yesterday, but a false sense of haste could lead to trouble. Make no mistake, there agents who will attempt to provoke foolish action to destabilize the movement. We can defend ourselves by simply maintaining a peaceful and cooperative demeanor, and questioning everything.

I agree with the theme of this tread. This is an amazing movement that is self-evolving. I think it's very important to keep our minds open to possibilities and broaden our perspectives. If we get trapped in "isms" which are only dogmatic thought structures, we aren't seeing reality as it is. We can't blame everything on corporate greed. the 99% were seduced by their manipulations but we wouldn't be where we are if we hadn't played the game at their level. Let's move our perspective to a higher altitude. Let's build what we're building organically and in it's own time. This way of working together on such a huge scale is a new thing. Let's give it time to work. Let's be patient and see what memes become sticky.

I also agree, and like the theme of this thread. Many big brains here, with even bigger ideas. Being patient, and keeping an open mind. Getting swept up in the emotion of passion, though intentions are well. Will get you into trouble. Of that I am guilty often, and it does trap you into narrow thinking. At least for the moment, but that moment can be damaging. Restraint, through all the applications of fore mentioned here is not only big, thought but a big deal, but I guess also some of those moments, are the best teaching moments. They themselves can help immensely. So Maybe the trick is a collective overhead like what you guys laid out here, leaving all boundaries open so that even your mistakes become valuable in the collective. When emotion draws you narrow, a friend to smack you back into it, is most important.
Where it gets tricky is taking such big ideas, and transcending them into some kind of practical applications that reach so many different people, with so much frustration into a funnel of positive outcome. I think the first step is trying to keep the destination positive, in a world of problems to discuss, that are just ugly. We need one of Einstein's theories for that.
So maybe you guys get together, use this outline of thought laid out here, as your demands. So us less enlightened ones can be reminded of these things more often. Then make all other demands temporary but important, like a popular one, and one I share is getting money out. Maybe it's should be measured by the bigger outline of transcendence, the open mind to think bigger than that, balanced by practical applications. Rushed passion, divided by open mindedness plus restraint, equals practical, collective transcendence, or something like that. I don't know. What do you think? I hope you Einsteins will dive back into this. It helped me, and it sounds like you have maybe tapped into what the collective wanting.

People know the difference between right and wrong. We simply need to focus on peacefully teaching the truth to everyone. If we focus on tactfully convincing others on our viewpoint we will succeed. After all, we have truth on our side.

Wow. To live a life in perfect harmony within ourselves, each other and nature is the best life to have. Please continue this.

That was a beautiful thing how that all came together Whitefeather, and worked the way it should, it will continue. It was so good, I came back to record some things for myself, to harmonize so to speak.

I appreciate this discussion and am craving more...This *happening* that we are a part of involves such a steep learning curve for most (all?) of us. We are building the path as we take each step. That makes it exhilarating, thrilling, magical, and terrifying! I also think that it's OK that some of us are half-awake, while others are far-seers. Even those who are still asleep may begin to wake up tomorrow. All of this is so hard to get a handle on, so challenging (for me) to express....do you know what I mean?

Yes I do this was a deep conversation from 6 deep thinkers when I got on here, and it pulled me in, but all you can do is like what I did. Soak it all in and throw what you think back out there. See what happens. Don't ever be afraid to express

yes sarahblythepond. Totally exhilarating, thrilling, magical, and terrifying! It is challenging for me to express also. So many visions flood my mind. I tend to look beyond the tangible, to the collective unconscious, the magical aspects of this enormous transformation. One of my favorite thinkers in this context is Terence McKenna, for instance take a look at this video.


Also another great site you could take a look at:
www.realitysandwich.com

A single organization might have a goal which, if achieved, might mean that the organization had no more reason to exist. In the past a large-scale movement has usually been perceived as consisting of various organizations with related (but different) goals. Today, a large-scale movement consisting largely of individuals seeking a total overthrow of the power structure is not about to agree on a few goals which, if achieved, will mean they'll agree to roll over and disappear.

A century ago we were Wobblies, working-class, Socialists, Anarchists & muckrakers. Shot down by the 1%, we grew strong. In time, by allowing the graduated tax and social safety nets of Progressives & the New Deal, they convinced some of us we’d won. We grew weak, but had a bit more to spend as consumers, which also profited the 1%. Their economy grew. But now, unable to accept their victory, they undo reforms, hurting us & the economy. As 99%ers, we’ve learned: Reforms are fine, but don’t trust the 1% to say when we’ve won.

http://sites.google.com/site/reinventstuff/home/history2rs.pdf

I've definitely considered Dran's idea in the past, It is all too doable these days to create the "total' democracy. The question is whether or not that is a good idea. There are so many different view points from the extremes of both sides of any argument, and so many people who just wouldn't care to take democracy into their own hands. There would be radicals proposing outrageous laws that noone noticed or cared to oppose... I think it would just end badly. And not to sound elitist but many people are not qualified to make the decisions that govern our nation. Especially with how busy we are in today's society. That's my 2 cents.