Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Apply for Membership

Categories

Please refrain from copy and pasting messages over and over and over, or you will be removed from the forum. We all have input to make so let's keep this at a discussion and not a text block of commercials. Here are some helpful guidelines for good discussion and debate recommended by one of our members:

  • * Stay on topic
  • * Be clear
  • * Build upon your points and address those of other people
  • * Refrain from making assumptions about others' unstated views
  • * If you disagree with somebody, do so politely
  • * Clarify your terms and seek to understand others' (but avoid semantic derails)
Note: The opinions expressed by the moderators and members of this discussion board do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Occupy Together or Occupy Wall St. In the spirit of free information, open discussion, and the freedom of expression, members are able to speak about issues relating and directly pertaining to the Occupy movement. You will be banned for hate speech or intentional misinformation and please refrain from any violent rhetoric; this is a peaceful movement. Thank you.
Charity vs Redistribution
  • gott5gott5 December 2011 +1 -1
    I don't quite get this???????? If a wealthy person gives regularly to charity (or has a foundation to help a cause) or they pay higher taxes that can redistributed is that persons efforts more or less accountable to their fellow man? In both cases are they paying their fair share? Is government so wise that they must be the one to choose where funds go?
    If I make a contribution to buy condoms sent to Africa or If my tax dollars funds Planned Parenthood is that equal.
    Is there a difference?
  • whitefeather December 2011 +1 -1
    If there was more financial equality in the world today most would be able to afford to buy their own and wouldn't need the charity. What I don't understand @Gott5 is how you can say in one breath you are against handouts but in the next say a wealthy person giving to a charity or having a foundation is paying their fair share??????? A person who can't afford to make a living has to hope for a charitable handout to survive????? What's up with that?????

    Wouldn't the person in Africa have more pride in himself if he could afford to buy the condoms himself? It doesn't matter if you give it to planned parenthood or buy the condoms yourself and send them; a handout is still a handout.

    Maybe if this person or business took less pay or profit and gave more to the workers (who take pride in their ability to work), the equality would be there for the people instead of most of the money going to one person or business. I am not saying that person or business has to give all of their profits to the workers but when a person or business is making so much of a profit it tips the balance and it takes away from the workers it becomes a form of inequality. A person has to be paid a living wage to afford to live and not have to except charitable handouts period.

    A side from the laws or regulations needed to keep the balance in check (this also includes the planets balance) the government has no business sticking it's nose in any business' affairs.
  • gavemehope December 2011 +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )
    Ya uh, the ones that big businesses that count spent more money on lobbying than in taxes. The only charity they give to now is our government. Like most of the top 30 in the world did this. They are now collecting their investment that allowed them to pay no taxes so they can double down on lobbying, or bribing in any way possible, so they have no laws either. The game is rigged.

    You are spewing out a propagated argument meant to pit the middle class against the poor so that the they, and by they I mean DEM, REP, have a fictional, soap opera, pro wrestling story line to keep every one arguing while they all rob us blind, and chip away at every liberty they think they can get away with.

    When you start to search for logical reasons they carry on this behavior with such incorrigible resolve, you come to the only true and logical conclusion, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything relating to charity. To suggest that any of them have any good intentions at this point, or to repeat any argument you hear from them is false.

    Just because they want to appear as they haven't sold their souls, and sold out this country, world and everything, and everyone in it, doesn't mean their is any basis of fact to anything they say. Because anymore today it's all bullshit. The only charity they give out is the bliss of ignorance by propagating things like this argument, and having people believe and repeat this crap. It is all about a power struggle, they have all the money, it's not enough, it's never enough. They want more. Charity? You ever heard of a tax write off ? Or, PR political favors? Get real, man.

    Agrees: slave

  • gott5gott5 December 2011 +1 -1
    WF.First I think the idea of someone paying their "fair share" is just as big a problem at the bottom as the top.......here's your big chance........How do you create long term financial equality? If you tell me how much I have to pay someone .........you are doing one thing........pushing me to fire everyone and work alone.
    WF Quote "A side from the laws or regulations" is not a small "Check and Balance" if controlling equallity is that important to you.

    In every Kentucky Derby the horses leave he gate together............tell me the last 20 horse "photo finish" . One wins, some do quite well,
    one might break a leg .................................................................and one is dead last.
    That's Life.
  • gott5gott5 December 2011 +1 -1
    Gave Hope...........I speak for no one but myself......I work hard and expect others to do the same. You cheat you deserve the punishment you get. You succeed......I'm going to try and copy your actions. Let me know if you need some pointers.
  • Loana January 2012 +1 -1
    The difference is: governmental programs to provide income redistribution can give people dignity - if they are really redistribution initiatives, not only state charity...
    The idea is to provide emergencial aid for pressing needs, but in a broader concept of help people to develop skills/find solutions that will give them a way to "walk by themselves"... Such programs must target sustainability, make the assisted people independent from the aid, after some time...
    Can be made in form of financial support during a professional training (short) period, targetting individuals absorption in the labor market - Brazil has a program like that, named "Casa Brasil" , and it works. Or financial aid to families that keep the children in school (particularly useful in places where exists great pressure to take children to help parents working in the fields).
  • gott5gott5 January 2012 +1 -1
    Income redistribution that is done intentionaly is OFTEN no more than negative enabling. Government blindly throws money at a problem, when many times corrective actions would do more than financial support.
  • Governments do not need to TAX, Taxing is stealing, everyone knows Taxing is Stealing.

    Governments have the Powers to make Monies out of thin air, JUST LIKE MAGIC, and can spend it on the poor and needed any way they like, that is most kind, some say this is inflationary, I say they Lie.

    I have done the math, waste equals inflation, hording leads to inflation, monies is a unit of Power designed to get productive work done in the System, when it is horded by the wealthy, it makes a money shortage.

    Supply and demand, what do we do when we have a shortage, feed the demand, every one knows we feed the Demand.

    "Print/Ment/Compute" more monies.

    If I am wrong, and it is inflationary, that's an equal tax on all, best we can do.

    However Governments just borrow what they do not steal in tax.

    If I steal five Dollars from one and give it to another, are there now ten Dollars?

    No, no there are not ten Dollars, it is still just five Dollars, no monies has been made, every one knows, no monies has been made.

    5 - 5 = 0

    If I Borrow five Dollars from one and give it to another, is there now ten Dollars?

    No, no there is not ten Dollars, every one knows there is Still just five Dollars, everyone knows no monies has been Made.

    Wait, wait, wait, NO MONIES HAS BEEN MADE, if monies do not come for TAX of Borrowing, where do monies come from?

    Everyone knows, every One knows, every ONE knows where monies come from.

    NOT EVERY "ZERO" knows where monies comes from.

    Any OWCer know where moneys come from?

    No I did not think so, I did not think so at all.

    One = Master
    Zero = Slave

    I = Master
    You= Slave

    YOU are a Slave, You will be a Slave, until You know where the monies come form.

    If ye want to know the truth, fallow the money, everyone knows, fallow the money, JUST NOT EVERY ZERO KNOWS IT.

    Fallow the yellow brick road, fallow the yellow brick road.

    Let's go fly a kite.

    17 cHeRy tReE lAne.
  • gott5gott5 January 2012 +1 -1
    We are all now dumber for having read that.
  • "We are all now dumber for having read that. "

    "We" when ye "says" "we", I believe ye means ye, not "We", ye does not speak for All.

    I agree, ye did get "dumer", however "dumer" is just more "dumb" that "dumb", so ye admit ye was already "dumb".

    "Any OWCer know where monies come from?"

    Ye is going to stay "dumb", until ye answers the question.

  • esmart January 2012 +1 -1
    So pay for your own police. If you can,t just hope it does not affect the rich guys property value. You silly people