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Please refrain from copy and pasting messages over and over and over, or you will be removed from the forum. We all have input to make so let's keep this at a discussion and not a text block of commercials. Here are some helpful guidelines for good discussion and debate recommended by one of our members:

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Note: The opinions expressed by the moderators and members of this discussion board do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Occupy Together or Occupy Wall St. In the spirit of free information, open discussion, and the freedom of expression, members are able to speak about issues relating and directly pertaining to the Occupy movement. You will be banned for hate speech or intentional misinformation and please refrain from any violent rhetoric; this is a peaceful movement. Thank you.
Just a thought
  • MysticBard November 2011 +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )
    Maybe we need to change the constitution to where the US government can participate in a select number of businesses and/or manufacturing as well as the distribution of some new products Like building magnetic generators to fit every size home (free energy) ( No more Nuclear Power Plants No more River Dams No More Utility companies) or maybe the government could build a cross country mass transit system ( run it better than the Post Office) generate enough money in fares to off set (eliminate) the cost of government and the present tax burden it places on the average citizen.

    just another un-edited idea
  • slave November 2011 +1 -1 (+1 / -0 )
    Your sentiments and intentions are welcome. However, we need to respect the laws of commodity exchange - i.e., laws of capital / profit. In capitalism such laws, including competitive private ownership, lead to accumulation of capital and monopoly - i.e, the shrinking 1%. Government / state, is always the political representation of private economic power, i.e., private owners of the means of production. In our days this translates into the owners of capital or the capitalists - because of owning what you need to survive including your job they have power over you including in the government i.e., it is their government and will be as long as they own the means you need to survive. The only way the government gets to follow your wish is if you owned similar means of production (e.g., banks, factories, land, etc.) to power over others, or that you helped to establish a new economic system with common ownership where no one could have power over another resulting in a shared or egalitarian power structure where your opinion would have to be equally considered as others - in which case the concept of "government" as we know it will become archaic.

    There are endless wishes and ideas that we could espouse. We need to move the discourse to a more practical and serious level starting with what is "necessary" and "possible" economically. Understanding the limits of imposed by the economic structure / system is essential in preventing "dead-ends". A lot of "dead-ends" have been tried with obvious outcomes trying to reform capitalism often with much consternation and demoralization due to such "purely political" approaches. OWS needs to refine its approach to the level of experimental "science" respecting the primacy of matter i.e., nature, i.e., economics, if it has any hope of achieving some of its "egalitarian" demands.
  • MundusVultDecipiMundusVultDecipi November 2011 +1 -1
    I really like the second part of your message #MysticBard. I am revisiting a treasured book of mine today that applies more than ever in these turbulent times. It is called "The Transition Handbook: From Oil Dependency to Local Resilience" The rumors of free energy possibly being invented already are very exciting, but completely disregards the laws of thermodynamics.This topic is discussed in the book under the chapter "How peak oil and climate change affect us: Post Petroleum Stress Disorder" and the section title is a part of a list of symptoms of PPSD: 'An irrational grasping at unfeasible solutions'